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Thread: Flying Condor2

  1. #11
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    Re: Flying Condor2

    Well I've discovered that not only is Condor2 a great sim for teaching procedures, but it is very effective is demonstrating where to find lift with various weather/atmospheric conditions. That is, the conditions I selected in the menus for each day - wet and dry adiabat temps, height of the inversion, sfc wind, winds aloft, moisture in the air, etc. - created the lift I would have expected if those conditions had been on the RASP.. It all makes the the flying very realistic. And, as far as I can tell, it seems to accurately put the lift where it should be, based on the terrain.

    I've been wanting to fly in wave. I wanted some basic wave over the Mendos with a west wind. I tried flying from WSC a couple of times with a few different weather combos. I found only marginal success only and a lot of work - trying to fly into a head wind to get to the hills.

    I launched out of Lampson a couple of times (first flight was an aerotow, second flight was a start from airborne overhead the runway). On the second flight - I contacted wave but ended up landing at the dirt strip on north shore of Clear Lake (that strip is no longer in our data base).

    I decided to move to Ukia.
    I set up a task in See You and displayed my task on a different screen (so that I had a map to look at in flight)

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    Then I set up an airborne start in Condor 2 from overhead Ukia at 5,000 ft (AGL) with a the max allowed wind. (The max below the inversion (max of 27 kts) and max above the inversion (max of 54 kts)). That flight went ok and I made it to Goat, but had to ridge soar a bit and work thermals at the top of the west facing canyons pix 3 to catch thermals to get me across that valley west of Goat. on the to get to Goat. At Goat I got high enough to catch wave and eventually made it to St John.
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    That flight was also way too much work.

    I finally decided to launch from Gravelly Valley airport. I think that approach will be the key. Started with max west winds available. I set the flight to start airborne - while suspended over the Gravelly runway (5,000 AGL, about 6,600 MSL). Upon release/start, I headed north (about 3 or 4 miles) and worked lift on Hull Mtn up to over 10,000 ft and moved east. I finally contacted wave again a bit below 8,000 ft - east of St John - and was able to climb.

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    On this first attempt I made it to 16,000 and decided to head for home. Sight seeing, the terrain all looked very real from that altitude. I even hit a bit of secondary/tertiary wave, but I wanted to get on the ground. I was cold and tired. I knew I would need a runway into the wind. I headed for Millers.


    Selecting Millers...
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    Enter right downwind at 1000 ft
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    On right Base Leg. Wind is still 19 kts. Yikes! Palms are very sweaty!
    I'll be glad to get on the ground.
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    Landed OK.
    Peter Kelly

  2. #12
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    Re: Flying Condor2

    It is Saturday and as it turned out, it was a good day to fly - on Condor 2 !!
    I didn't want to fly out of Minden since Trump is visiting Nevada.

    I decided to go for a new personal best by starting at Gravelly Airport and landing at Yollo County - just west of Davis CA.
    The task: (Start at St John, to 20/16, to Bessa Twr, with finish at Yollo)
    Wind was set up to take advantage of the terrain. Wave lift and ridge lift. Programed wind was max from 290 degrees, which was 27 kts on wind arrow, and 54 kts on upper level wind.

    It was an exhausting flight, but satisfying.
    I "Released" from 5,000 AGL over Gravelly Airport.

    I completed the task in 49.5 minutes in a duo discus.
    total flight time was 1.4 hrs

    Next time, I will take fewer pictures. Snapping photos all the time tends to result in sloppy flying.

    I found the Wave over Snow Mtn, then, in and out of wave as I headed down east side of Bear Vly to 20/16 TP, then ran the ridge, as planned, from North of Rumsey to Bessa Twrs - the southern turn point. Although it looked intimidating to leave the hills near Bessa Dam, it was an easy flight over to Yolo with scattered cu and a tailwind.


    It was nice to hear the crowd cheering as I crossed the finish ( a nice touch that is programmed into Condor2), but it looked and felt like the west wind would be too strong for landing on that N-S runway. I was unable to spot the windsock. I considered using a short taxiway for landing into the wind, but the freshly mowed hay field a half mile east of the runway looked a lot safer, with a really big field, with a nice approach and the mowing was done east to west so I landed there. I didn't want to screw up a good flight with a crash landing.

    see flight track and some stats from see you:

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    I'll add a couple of photos in a bit... maybe tomorrow. Here is an IGC file of the flight.

    Mtn9-12 gravly - yolo.igc

    Climbing through 12,000 on the Northwest corner of Snow Mtn - See Lake Pillsbury south of Gravelly runway.

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    Running out of wave lift as I see cross-roads ahead on the right.

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    Just south of Rumsey Gay, running the ridge at high speed at 3,800 ft with good lift..


    end
    Last edited by Peter Kelly; 09-12-2020 at 06:27 PM.
    Peter Kelly

  3. #13
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    Re: Flying Condor2

    I have done an edit on this posting in order to tell you how to set up Condor2.

    Install the app on your computer. The program costs about $60 US. (I paid the price of 50 Euros via PayPal ).
    I also joined the "Condor Club" and signed up for "Premium membership" - that costs another !2 or 13 dollars - well worth it! It allows you to download landscapes.
    You need to use their unzip program for the 7-Zip files, and also allows you to download the tool for landscaped downloading and installing. Without the membership, yo probably can not download the files.

    Buy a control stick for $50 . I have the Logitech EXTREME 3D PRO. Twist stick for runner works fine. You need to assign the controls.
    Plug it in to the computer and assign commands to the buttons.
    Identify which button are which.
    -----
    To identify buttons on the "Logitech Extreme 3D Pro"
    Using File explorer, go to - Control Panel/ Hardware and Sound/ Devices and Printers
    See "Logitech Extreme 3D" listed under game controllers (assuming you plugged it into your computer)
    Right mouse click on the image of the controller and see menu with "Game controller Setting" on top of the list.

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    See Window with Controller listed - select "Properties" - see new window.
    Select "Test" tab and see all buttons listed.

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    -----
    Tap each button on the Logitech stick and you will see the corresponding button light up. - so now you know what to assign to each button by number.


    Trigger is button #1
    Side button (under my right thumb) is #2 - I use it for resetting my view to straight ahead
    There are four buttons on top, but i only use the left two:
    #5 - Set to Trim Nose Down
    #3 - Set to Trim Nose Up

    Hat Switch is also on top ( I don't use the hat switch, but it says it is for point of view)

    Six button on left side of base
    I set the six button on the left side as follows:
    #7 - PDA
    #8 - Rope Release

    #9 - Look Left
    #10 - Look Right

    #11 - Look Down
    #12 - Look Up

    Slider - Opens and closes spoilers
    ----

    Photo of my stick...


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    Now that youare familiar with the control stick, you need to use Condor 2 to assign the buttons,

    Open the Condor2 program

    SETUP button. (third button from the bottom)
    in the new window, see five tabs, select the third tab - INPUT

    see column on right side called Options.
    Below that select the "Assign Controls" button

    Top four items should be set to be controlled by "Device"

    - Bank X Axis
    - Pitch Y Axis
    - Rudder Z Rotation
    - Airbrakes Slider


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    See "View POV" in left column
    Double click the middle column on that same row and immediately touch the "hat switch"

    Scroll to the next part of the screen, see
    Rudder center
    Trimmer up
    Trimmer down
    etc.


    See "Trimmer up" in left column
    Double click the middle column on that row and immediately touch "button 2"
    etc.

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    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Peter Kelly; 11-29-2020 at 09:34 PM.
    Peter Kelly

  4. #14
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    Re: Flying Condor2

    I haven't been TOO obsessed with this Condor2, but I am getting the hang of it.

    I started my opening remarks on this thread without enough experience to share any valuable opinions, but now I think I actually have something valuable to offer ....

    After several hours of this Condor2 Sim Time, I am sold. Rather than talk about me, here is what I propose...

    For the cost of one glider lesson, assuming you have a reasonably new computer (less than 5 or 6 years old), you can actually practice some reasonably realistic cross country training. Yes, you do need to buy the software, and some kind of input control device, but as I mentioned earlier, I paid about $60 for the program
    ( https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/stor...ry&path=25_399 )
    and about $60 for the control stick
    ( https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/stor...ry&path=25_399 ) .
    And, you need to load the landscape for Byron (version 0.95), but that's it. You can get more into it , i.e. spend more money, but I just use the keyboard input for a couple of the commands, and I have most of the buttons on the control stick mapped out and labeled Trim (up and down) pan left and right as well as up and down. And, one button to change the display screen on the PDA.

    I have made up our first cross country task. I call it: 1-wsc-cooks-3 sis-wsc.fpl I have attached that file to this posting, but before you try to use it, change the name of the file type (the last three letters after the dot) from .txt to .fpl If we all practice on a given task, with a given set of weather conditions, you will learn quickly from others as we go along. If we all fly the standard cirrus glider, with no alterations, that too would be helpful.

    This first task is:


    • Start - Cooks
    • TP 1 - 3 sisters
    • Finish - WSC


    I start the flight from 5,000 feet above the runway facing north. Before release you can look around and watch the clouds forming and dissipating. Very cool.

    I have the weather set to:


    • wind 270/05 Light Turbulence Low variations
    • Thermals - adiabats set to 49.8 and 75.1, with an inversion at 6463 ft - that gives us:
    • Cloud base 5741 ft
    • Strength Moderate, Normal width
    • low on everything else on the thermal tab and no streeting.


    For Waves

    • upper wind is zero kts, Stability is 50 % that is 5/10, and
    • Moisture is 50 % also.



    • High clouds are zero 0/8


    On Hangar
    • select Club, Std Cirrus and don't alter the weights.


    On the NOTAM tab, be sure to indicate start
    • Type is : Airborne at a height of 4921 ft.


    Anybody interested in doing these min races? They amount to mini-cross country flights.

    I didn't make it back to WSC on my first try, but my second one was good and I have a nice cheer when crossed the finish. I did a normal entry and landed ok to the south.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Peter Kelly

  5. #15
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    Re: Flying Condor2

    This is great, I'm glad more people are finding condor soaring simulator. I have been using condor slightly longer then i've been flying gliders in reality, and found it to be super helpful when it came to my actual training. I propose that in the next couple weeks we get a multiplayer task going and all fly together. I'm sure we can come up with at least 5 people maybe more. Personally I'm free just about any time besides during work hours. If anyone has any questions about condor I always love to talk about it and help where I can. -Pablo Saso-Perkins

  6. #16
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    Re: Flying Condor2

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Saso Perkins View Post
    This is great, I'm glad more people are finding condor soaring simulator. I have been using condor slightly longer then i've been flying gliders in reality, and found it to be super helpful when it came to my actual training. I propose that in the next couple weeks we get a multiplayer task going and all fly together. I'm sure we can come up with at least 5 people maybe more. Personally I'm free just about any time besides during work hours. If anyone has any questions about condor I always love to talk about it and help where I can. -Pablo Saso-Perkins
    What would be the purpose or what are we trying to do... if we did get a group together and have a "a multiplayer task going and all fly together." Would it be for the purpose of the exercise? Would it be:
    • racing?
    • Lead and follow around a task?
    • Just be able to see each other in flight?
    • practice thermaling with each other?
    • avoiding mid-air collisions?
    • learning where lift is found - given certain weather conditions?
    • etc?


    I'm up for any and all, but we would all need to fly the same ships if we were racing.
    Could we all start at nearly the same time? Maybe you could explain how a multiplayer task would be set up and operated? How does the launch sequence work? I have way more questions and no answers. Seems we would want to know ahead of time what the weather was going to be on the day of the flight. No need to wait for the RASP to be posted. Maybe we could practice it a bit?

    Thanks for any ideas you might have Pablo.
    Peter Kelly

  7. #17
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    Re: Flying Condor2

    Today (Fri 9/18) we had some nice flying conditions.

    Here is what the (RASP) soundings looked like at 3 sisters today and here is what the clouds looked like (Mtn Cam).

    Seems like we would want to program Condor with these same conditions (temps and inversions) so that we could have the same thermals and clouds. I wonder if that is possible?

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    Peter Kelly

  8. #18
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    Re: Flying Condor2

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Kelly View Post
    Today (Fri 9/18) we had some nice flying conditions.

    Here is what the (RASP) soundings looked like at 3 sisters today and here is what the clouds looked like (Mtn Cam).

    Seems like we would want to program Condor with these same conditions (temps and inversions) so that we could have the same thermals and clouds. I wonder if that is possible?
    I answered my own question on this one. Yes, we can duplicate the same conditions on Condor as we have on the RASP.

    Thomas and I had a good flight on 9/24 - see write up - https://www.williamssoaring.com/news...Valley-9-24-20

    I created a flight plan on Condor, setting parameters favorably, and the condor flight was just like the conditions on the real flight on 9/24.

    Here is a screen shot on Condor from the same position as on the 9/24 flight...

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    Pretty amazing .

    Nice thing about the condor flight plan is I could/can fly all the way back to WSC, with only a few thermals. I'll add another screen shot I a minute in order to illustrate that claim.

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    Since smoke is bad today (in real life), I just might take another flight later tonight - on Condor. I'm not patient enough to follow the tow plane, but starting from 5,000 ft on each flight makes it more tolerable. It's nice to have so many strong thermals, and I get to practice my dolphining techniques.

    end
    Peter Kelly

  9. #19
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    Re: Flying Condor2

    OK - I flew tonight. Great experience. I'll do it a few more times in the coming week(s).


    Task: Yolo to WSC


    Start 5,000 overhead Yolo Apt,
    Finish WSC (no min finish altitude)
    Race in 2 minutes


    Wind
    - 200/10


    Thermals
    - cloud base= 8200 ft.
    - strength = very strong
    - Width = Very wide
    - Activity = High
    - Flats activity = High


    Waves
    - speed = 24 kts
    - stability = 5/10
    - moisture = 50%


    High Clouds = none




    Hangar - Ship
    - Duo Discus XL - no alterations
    (6.2 wing loading)
    (C/G 0.0)


    NOTAM

    - Start type = Airborne @ 4921 ft


    Results/ Score Sheet:


    Can you beat this? and you need to land safely at WSC.
    - Task time = 30:53
    - Average Speed 72.39 kts
    Peter Kelly

  10. #20
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    Re: Flying Condor2

    Besides racing, we also have the opportunity to learn how to avoid mid air collisions. As all of you know, when you are circling in a thermal with another glider, you typically will not collide with him/her if you are both at the same altitude and flying the same flight track. However, most all of you also know that if your radius of turn is inside of the glider in front of you, then eventually you will collide, if you are at the same altitude. In primary flight training in the military we all learned to do the basic rejoin. We start our flying in formation, separate with a 180 degree turn, first the lead and then the wingman. Lead would then establish a constant speed, 30 degree banked turn, while the wingman would cut slightly inside the turn, and as physics would have it, the two ships would magically come together. The learning point is driven home when you try to save a bad closure rate. (Like turning inside of another glider in a thermal)' If you try ever try to salvage a poor closure at the last minute by trying to turn harder inside of the other ship - BOOM! You lose sight of lead for sure and probably will have a mid-air!

    Here's how you set it up: You fly steady 30 deg bank circles from 5,000 ft down to 2,000 ft. You save your flight track, and then fly the same flight track, but be sure you have the ghost of the first flight track selected before you begin.

    On flight #1 I started overhead Colusa and turned west for a mile or so then established a steady 30 degree banked turn at 80 kts.. that is a standard turning rejoin maneuver.

    On flight #2 I started 15 seconds after I saw ship #1 start, flew the same flight path, and then rejoined on #1 after he began his turn. Then, on the third flight I was now ship #3, and I started 15 seconds after ship #2, followed them and joined on them. It is all much easier said than done - believe me.


    Here are a couple of snap shots as we were pretty close to flying in formation on the rejoin.

    We all landed at Colusa after many many 360 turns from 5,000 ft down to 1,000 ft.

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    Here I am landing on the right wing of #2. Note that #1 is already on the ground.


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    The second shot shows shadow of #2 on my left, and # 1 already stopped up ahead.. Another great flight!

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    end
    Last edited by Peter Kelly; 10-05-2020 at 10:46 AM.
    Peter Kelly

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