Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Fly - Thursday 5/26

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Schleicher ASW-24
    Posts
    2,103

    Fly - Thursday 5/26

    RASP charts look good for today, as of last night anyway.
    I see one of the 24's is not scheduled before 2:30.
    I should be able to get in a couple of good hours before that.

    Launch at Noon, probably need to tow to x-roads area, or maybe just to Walker Ridge, run the eastern edge of the clouds north and south, be on the ground before 2:25. North wind may have subsided by then.
    Again, revision may be needed, as all of this is based upon RASP from last night's run.

    12 noon local H-Crit

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	hwcrit.curr.1100lst.d2.png 
Views:	203 
Size:	20.5 KB 
ID:	3137


    Cu bases at 1 PM Local time:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	zsfclclmask.curr.1200lst.d2.png 
Views:	162 
Size:	18.8 KB 
ID:	3138

    Sounding for WSC at 2 PM:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sounding1.curr.1300lst.d2.png 
Views:	173 
Size:	33.2 KB 
ID:	3139
    Peter Kelly

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Schleicher ASW-24
    Posts
    2,103

    Re: Fly - Thursday 5/26

    Post flight report.

    Fcst had changed and there were fewer clouds and less wind than had been on the forecast from the night before.

    Yes, it was indeed a good day.

    Launched at 12 noon, off at cloud base 5 miles east of Goat South Turnpoint at 7,000 ft.

    After Cora gave Doug a call, and found he wasn't gong to be there to take the ship until 3 PM, I had an extra 15 or 20 minutes to fly the ASW-24 - OJ
    Landed at 14:46, after a very pleasant two and a half hours of soaring.

    Lift was quite predictable along the western side of the clouds, with high wispies marking the lift.
    Didn't need stop and thermal much, but engaged the other two ships during the last hour of my flight, after going to Black Butte and return.
    Total time thermalling/ circling was 12 % for the day, and most of that was with the other two pilots, Jim in CA and Russ in 88.
    Flight is posted to OLC


    Sky to the north...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sky to the north.GIF 
Views:	323 
Size:	295.5 KB 
ID:	3146




    Flight track
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pk-OJ-5-26.GIF 
Views:	363 
Size:	244.6 KB 
ID:	3147



    photos of Jim S. and Russ sharing thermals with me.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Jim-CA.GIF 
Views:	282 
Size:	214.8 KB 
ID:	3148 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sharing with Russ-88.GIF 
Views:	299 
Size:	228.4 KB 
ID:	3149
    Last edited by Peter Kelly; 05-28-2016 at 07:01 AM.
    Peter Kelly

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Trinity
    Posts
    50

    Re: Fly - Thursday 5/26

    I had a great flight. Thanks for the mentoring, I learned much. I launched about 12:30 but release at 6k north of Indian Valley Res. I struggled for about 45 mins to get on top of the ridge to goat. In hindsight I should have stayed to 7K and gone a little farther. Once on the ridge life got much easier. And following you. After leaving you I headed further north. Russ was waiting for me at Black Butte but I was dodging clouds and it was getting on in the day so turned south near Alder Springs. We headed south to Rumsey Gap then home. Had we more time Berryessa looked very doable.

    Picture of Russ in 88 and you in a thermal below.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100_0772.jpg 
Views:	673 
Size:	85.6 KB 
ID:	3144
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100_0769.jpg 
Views:	682 
Size:	135.0 KB 
ID:	3145

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Schleicher ASW-24
    Posts
    2,103

    Re: Fly - Thursday 5/26

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    I had a great flight. Thanks for the mentoring, I learned much. I launched about 12:30 but release at 6k north of Indian Valley Res. I struggled for about 45 mins to get on top of the ridge to goat. In hindsight I should have stayed to 7K and gone a little farther. Once on the ridge life got much easier.
    ....
    ....
    Glad I could offer something.
    As for the tow, I was tempted at the first cloud or two, but I couldn't see a good support path to the other clouds, and besides, the first clouds were based at 6,000, which was leaving me little room for missing a thermal. As many pilots advise, it's always best to get off tow (in lift of course) with a plan on how to get to the next thermal after that first one.

    Attached is my flight log.


    If you have a flight log, it is helpful to re-play (- in animation mode, in See You), the portions where we were flying in the same airspace.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Peter Kelly

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Trinity
    Posts
    50

    Re: Fly - Thursday 5/26

    I see your path staying west, my mistake. Besides releasing too far east I also went more east beyond Sheet Iron, towards Alder Springs. Although I had a good line of lift mostly between the clouds, the bases were lower on the east side and the clouds less defined. I wasn't comfortable getting below them to move west. Another problem Ill have to resolve is my Iglide flight computer doesn't update wind direction often enough and then its appears off by up to 90 degrees from the clear navs. Contributes to my 'limited' ability to find thermals.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Santa Rosa
    Posts
    220

    Re: Fly - Thursday 5/26

    I launched from WSC at 1300 in “88” and released at TreFram at 7000 then worked my way to Goat where Peter in “OJ” had just returned from Black Butte and offered to show me the way to SIron. Of course I jumped at the chance to tag along and learn something from Peter. Peter led the way along the west side of the clouds were we found plenty of lift, so not much circling on the way to SIron and return to Snow. I think we were flying along the west side of the convergence with more clouds and lower bases (7K) east of the convergence and bases around 9 or 10000’ on the west side. See attached image of the Mendos with the convergence trace shown.

    Peter seems to know where the lift will be with confidence as he demonstrated several times. One lift he found was spectacular as seen from 500’ behind him when he announced that he would slow to 50Kts for the lift coming up. About 30 seconds later Peter in “OJ” climbed at least 200’ very quickly without turning then seconds later I did the same climb! “OJ” appeared to go straight up at 1000 fpm!

    Over Snow Peter headed for WSC to hand “OJ” over to the next renter. I proceed north toward SIron again along the same route Peter used and had nearly the same experience as when Peter was leading, so I continued to Black Butte. Several times during my trip north I encountered 8+kts of lift and turned to circle for more altitude finding only sink. This was acting more like a lift band or river with sink along side. Has anyone had this experience with a line of convergence before? Peter, did you detect this?

    Over Black Butte at 9600’ ClearNav was showing I was still within gliding range of WSC (barely). I was tempted to continue along the clouds further north, but I just don’t seem to be able to continue out of gliding range of WSC.

    I returned south and flew side by side with Jim Smith from Walker to Rumsey Gap then WSC. Jim, thanks for that great photograph of “88” with the pilot clearly visible.

    Thanks to Peter my circling time was down to 22% for this flight, my lowest except for wave flights.

    Peter, thanks for generous offer to share some of your knowledge and contribute to a great flight for me!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Glide_Circle_Willows_20160526.jpg 
Views:	293 
Size:	243.6 KB 
ID:	3152

    20160526_RLP_BlackButte.IGC
    Last edited by Russ Pillard; 05-27-2016 at 05:12 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Schleicher ASW-24
    Posts
    2,103

    Re: Fly - Thursday 5/26

    As for gliding range from WSC.
    I suspect you are not using a MC of 3 or 4, as I do in that environment. At a MC of 3 or 4 you probably were outside of gliding range. There have been lots of discussions on why you should "think MC " when you are flying x-c. Jim-1B has quoted noted author and racing champ John C. (and now a local pilot). more than once on that very subject here on our forum.

    As for turning vs just dolphin flying, (diving and zooming) along the so called "convergence" line......

    It wasn't much of a "convergence" on this flight. It was more a case of better lift on the west side-- for various reasons... prevailing local winds, sun angles on the ground, canyons facing into the wind,channelling the thermal wind, shadows on the ground, etc. The term convergence is misused and over used, but it's convenient to use the term, so we all use it. Meteorologists cringe when they listen to us talk about convergence. Easier to fly the speed appropriate for the lift/sink if you don't vary the speed too much as you push and pull, with shallow turns into each of the thermals as you pass them. That's why I was announcing my speed several times as we flew along. I wanted to be sure you were noting how I was varying the speed. Going much over 70 on that line of lift was counterproductive and slowing to less than 50 didn't pay off, since I was only passing through the lift.

    As for circling, in that environment, in our situations, there were plenty of good 8 kt (average) thermals to be had, and you can decrease your forward ground speed to zero, if you wanted to circle to enjoy them, but for what purpose? In that cloudy environment it is better to remain well enough clear at the clouds to be able to view shapes and cloud shadows on the ground up ahead. And, why circle? The height takes away your forward visibility. You can't pick a good track if you can't see. And, if you want to travel, rather than do circles, it's better to fly with only a few s turns, not slowing too tooooo, much as you pass through the lift.
    I'll stop and circle more for the purpose of letting my computer calculate the wind, rather than just to gain unneeded altitude.

    That goes back to Jim's point.... if you do consistently good circles, you will have more accurate wind read outs. Just my opinion.

    I enjoyed flying with both of you on that flight. Lots of fun. Thanks.
    Last edited by Peter Kelly; 05-28-2016 at 07:36 AM.
    Peter Kelly

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Schleicher ASW-24
    Posts
    2,103

    Re: Fly - Thursday 5/26

    Russ,

    the RASP is still not published yet for this morning, but if it doesn't chg much since last night's run, see the winds over Black Butte. They won't have a good lift line today with the surface winds being so different as what we had. Besides, the moisture is fcst to be less, so fewer clouds.
    Peter Kelly

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Santa Rosa
    Posts
    220

    Re: Fly - Thursday 5/26

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Kelly View Post
    Russ,

    the RASP is still not published yet for this morning, but if it doesn't chg much since last night's run, see the winds over Black Butte. They won't have a good lift line today with the surface winds being so different as what we had. Besides, the moisture is fcst to be less, so fewer clouds.
    Peter, here are the RASP surface winds at 1500PDT (1400PST) from Thursday and Saturday. The winds today (Saturday) appear to me to be quite similar. What do you see that indicates a poor (less good) "lift line" for Saturday?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sfcwind_20160526_1500PDT.png 
Views:	219 
Size:	35.3 KB 
ID:	3153Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sfcwind_20160528_1500PDT.png 
Views:	196 
Size:	32.5 KB 
ID:	3154

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Schleicher ASW-24
    Posts
    2,103

    Re: Fly - Thursday 5/26

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Pillard View Post
    Peter, here are the RASP surface winds at 1500PDT (1400PST) from Thursday and Saturday. The winds today (Saturday) appear to me to be quite similar. What do you see that indicates a poor (less good) "lift line" for Saturday?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sfcwind_20160526_1500PDT.png 
Views:	219 
Size:	35.3 KB 
ID:	3153Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sfcwind_20160528_1500PDT.png 
Views:	196 
Size:	32.5 KB 
ID:	3154
    Russ, I posted the above about 15 minutes before the completion of today's model run, so I did not have that update that you posted here. Here is what I was looking at for today. This is the 21 hour fcst for 2100Z for today, Sat 28 May:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sfcwind.curr.1300lst.d2 (1).png 
Views:	242 
Size:	32.7 KB 
ID:	3156

    Today, the wind is in the low teens, coming up the east side of the Mendos and it is from a northerly direction. It is converging with the weak wind from the west side. It was katabatic as it came down the hills north of Redding, blowing pretty good before it bends in towards Goat, and probably didn't heat that much from the valley floor. There are no canyons facing into that wind on the east side, like there are on the west side to collect the warm air and channel it into thermals. Surface wind on west side of the Mendos is less than a couple of knots from Goat to Alder so no wind bringing the thermals up the west slope, and more importantly, the canyons that are open to the southwest don't have wind coming up them to consolidate the thermals. Wind will curl around the corner from Diamond M and come around to Sheet Iron TP but the east side of Snow is blocked by St John, so not much consolidation of thermal air there either.

    On Thursday, The wind is opposite. From the east side it is nearly calm,and what is there is warm, 90 degrees to the ridge ( easterly, not northerly), so some canyon effect. But the strong point is that the wind n the west side is what we like. Stronger, up the canyons, and 180 opposite of the east side wind, such as it is.
    Last edited by Peter Kelly; 05-28-2016 at 01:52 PM.
    Peter Kelly

Similar Threads

  1. Fly Thursday 7 April
    By Peter Kelly in forum News & Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-06-2016, 09:21 AM
  2. Fly - Thursday 3/24/2016
    By Peter Kelly in forum News & Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-27-2016, 07:08 PM
  3. Fly - Thursday 2-25-16
    By Peter Kelly in forum News & Discussion
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 02-29-2016, 09:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •